tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post6243625895269401245..comments2024-03-29T05:45:54.272+08:00Comments on BULLy the BEAR: Ethical investingla papillionhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01372278083694506953noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-2282689539823949972016-10-04T08:02:06.656+08:002016-10-04T08:02:06.656+08:00I'm very much against smoking (and other vices...I'm very much against smoking (and other vices in general) but that doesn't stop me from investing a huge chunk in companies that together control more than 90% of the world's tobacco market. It started out as a way at not being in a lose-lose situation; my health is affected when breathing in 2nd hand smoke. Now, I don't get as irritated since these people are indirectly paying me for tolerating their bad habits (tobacco companies have very stable dividend payouts). Similarly, even if smokers start quitting and say the stock price drops, I still gain in terms health dividends. Hence win-win. I'm extremely practical; there's no way any government will ban worldy vices (gambling, smoking, drinking, prostitution) in the near future. And if society (or a significant portion of it) would prefer spending more on vices than they would food/education, I'll gladly reduce the negative externalities that I have to endure through dividends. <br /><br />*ok, I've poured lots of oil on myself. Let the flaming begin :)*Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-6913221623682237832015-08-01T16:58:42.241+08:002015-08-01T16:58:42.241+08:00The ETF I mentioned earlier is listed in SGX. The ETF I mentioned earlier is listed in SGX. KChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15681244843883578276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-56630374138275735042015-07-15T09:10:39.275+08:002015-07-15T09:10:39.275+08:00Does anyone know what is the industry norm?
http...Does anyone know what is the industry norm? <br /><br />http://www.straitstimes.com/business/companies-markets/lian-beng-resignations-bonus-dispute-key-factor<br /><br />Bonus based on after deducting minority interests or before?Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01096331252046081022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-6380763448149384482015-07-06T11:43:28.523+08:002015-07-06T11:43:28.523+08:00Hi Rolf,
I like your way...probably that's th...Hi Rolf,<br /><br />I like your way...probably that's the way that I'm adopting now. We still have to be accountable for my actions long after the money that we profited from it is gone, haha!la papillionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01372278083694506953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-86943680105581089042015-07-06T11:42:10.533+08:002015-07-06T11:42:10.533+08:00Hi Siaoboindex,
Wah, really ah? All major superma...Hi Siaoboindex,<br /><br />Wah, really ah? All major supermarket chains also sell live animals mah, no? Thks for dropping by :)la papillionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01372278083694506953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-849208648419131202015-07-05T20:07:25.530+08:002015-07-05T20:07:25.530+08:00Hi LP,
I have to agree that if my gut tells me so...Hi LP,<br /><br />I have to agree that if my gut tells me something not 100% integrity or ethically right about the co after research, I will not invest in it even if it means making money. Or sometimes even after hearing the CEO talks and by gut I do not really think he is a truly sincere guy, I will not dabble in that company. <br /><br />I do not care about which company, but if my gut suspect they have elements of unethical, no go! <br />If my gut tells me co is Integrity one, but later find out there is fraud! I just had to try harder next time in my judgement, but no regrets and no self blame. <br />Rolf Sueyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10723925075715114650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-59728221231609752232015-07-05T19:23:56.525+08:002015-07-05T19:23:56.525+08:00Hmm nice thought. Heard about this from a Buddhist...Hmm nice thought. Heard about this from a Buddhist friend, whom did not invest In sheng siong due to the fact they sell live animals. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-63741048956411208902015-07-04T11:49:56.323+08:002015-07-04T11:49:56.323+08:00Hi SI,
Good segregation of ethics...I agree that ...Hi SI,<br /><br />Good segregation of ethics...I agree that most investors will just worry about the integrity of the management instead of the business, because that's what will affect the outcome of the investment more than the ethics of the business itself. <br /><br />You're right. I was discussing this issue with my wife the other day. It's really hard to say that a company X does ethical business because we don't know what they do underhand in private. Hence, it's still better to take whatever profits you get from investing in the business, and than use the money in the manner of your choosing. <br /><br />You've clarified the ethics in management and business and that makes it a whole lot clearer for me! Thanks!la papillionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01372278083694506953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-16120438903645192122015-07-04T11:22:06.280+08:002015-07-04T11:22:06.280+08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Sillyinvestorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03228581533460899084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-60624153914763091132015-07-04T11:22:05.897+08:002015-07-04T11:22:05.897+08:00Hi LP,
I am not really affected by ethic. There a...Hi LP,<br /><br />I am not really affected by ethic. There are 2 issues of entics here, one is management, te other is nature of business.<br /><br />GENTING for example, I will buy if price is low enough without batting a eyelid <br /><br />By if I see a company pay themselves big time, and do nonsense and destroy shareholder / employee values, then I think I will give the company a miss because I doubt the integrity of management. As in your case, your HSBC e.g. <br /><br />Personally, business wise... How "clean" is clean? Sillyinvestorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03228581533460899084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-81019240247088221192015-07-01T17:42:39.045+08:002015-07-01T17:42:39.045+08:00Hi EH,
Thanks! I heard about this kind of instrum...Hi EH,<br /><br />Thanks! I heard about this kind of instruments but never really dig in further. Unfortunately, it's in US so after tax should be really low yields... Is that the price of being ethical? hahala papillionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01372278083694506953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-50496714143946202532015-07-01T10:50:31.760+08:002015-07-01T10:50:31.760+08:00Talk about ethical. There's an index and ETF f...Talk about ethical. There's an index and ETF for that.<br /><br />http://us.spindices.com/indices/strategy/sp-ethical-pan-asia-select-dividend-opportunities-indexKChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15681244843883578276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-58875357937409800432015-06-30T21:42:59.883+08:002015-06-30T21:42:59.883+08:00Hi B,
Agreed that it's hard to define, but th...Hi B,<br /><br />Agreed that it's hard to define, but that doesn't mean we should avoid the question. You're right, when we're hoping for a bear, we're also waiting to profit from the suffering of others. But there's a clear distinction between investing in a company that does things that you don't want to know and waiting for bad things to happen. The former involves actively participating, while the other is more passive. Maybe the guilt is lesser? I don't know.<br /><br />Seems to be that if we're too ethical, there's nothing to invest anymore LOLla papillionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01372278083694506953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-37121675371851788372015-06-30T21:36:35.898+08:002015-06-30T21:36:35.898+08:00Hi LP
It's hard to define isn't it. Too m...Hi LP<br /><br />It's hard to define isn't it. Too many retailers are excited about the greek fall when there are many pensioners who lost their money. Ironic? Or ethical?Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09041255778427742477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-88738470841446305522015-06-30T17:57:32.958+08:002015-06-30T17:57:32.958+08:00Hi Jimmy,
Ethical? Easy. If you don't smoke b...Hi Jimmy,<br /><br />Ethical? Easy. If you don't smoke because it's cancer causing, would you consider buying into a tobacco company that sells cigarettes to others? If you love your kids and wife, would you invest into a company that does porn and exploits others? If you are environmental activist, would you invest into Shell and esso type of companies?<br /><br />I am interested to know if the consistence of your daily choices are also applied to investing. Or is it a totally segregated and ring fenced domain of its own where the main purpose is to get the best returns for your money?la papillionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01372278083694506953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-87203012229495652802015-06-30T17:52:11.093+08:002015-06-30T17:52:11.093+08:00how do we define ethical?
i remember during Lehm...how do we define ethical? <br /><br />i remember during Lehman bro crisis, NTUC chief asked companies not to retrench staff till after chinese new year but DBS bo chap and retrenched staff before CNY. is it unethical?<br /><br />unless u mean Genting where they have casinos or Marboro which produce cigarettes. Then i consider it unethicalJimmy Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09659458711759857129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-26526042941478269312015-06-30T17:49:36.932+08:002015-06-30T17:49:36.932+08:00Hi SMOL,
I like your argument that whether we buy...Hi SMOL,<br /><br />I like your argument that whether we buy or sell has nothing much to do with the actual company operating per say. It's very convincing.<br /><br />But still, the point remains whether we should be consistent in applying our morals and ethical choices not only on decisions we make daily and the investing decisions we take. I'm half half actually, compared to years ago when I'll say a 'Who cares about ethics?' when wearing my investing hat.<br /><br />And thus I find the Sharia investing, basically investment according to the rules of their religion, fascinating. <br /><br />Maybe it's only me who finds this question interesting. Perhaps it's Maslow's hierarchy of needs...no money already who cares about ethics?! LOLla papillionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01372278083694506953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-37649290518041030142015-06-30T16:18:58.116+08:002015-06-30T16:18:58.116+08:00LP,
Our money only "support" the listed...LP,<br /><br />Our money only "support" the listed company when we buy them during IPOs, share placements, rights issues, and when we choose script instead of opting dividends in cash.<br /><br />Other than that, the company don't benefit one bit what we do when we buy/sell shares in the open market. <br /><br />OK, it benefits indirectly when enough speculators bid up the share price to facilitate the company's M&A activities by using the inflated company shares as payment in kind.<br /><br /><br />You brought up an interesting moot point!<br /><br />How about climate change? Can I invest in O&G companies when I am a tree hugger?<br /><br />What if I am a staunch vegetarian and animal lover? Can buy Breadtalk?<br /><br />How about the 24% annual interests charged by credit card companies? Can it be considered usury?<br /><br />The list goes on and on...<br /><br /><br />Me?<br /><br />I keep what I own close to my chest ;)<br /><br />I enjoy wine, women, and song as a grasshopper. I already got enough well-meaning flak form righteous ants. The last thing I need is to provide them with more fodder to chew me up!<br /><br />LOL! Singapore Man of Leisurehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13774067113884418001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-48614967221407463962015-06-30T15:15:49.123+08:002015-06-30T15:15:49.123+08:00Hi Sanye,
I think you misunderstood me. I am fine...Hi Sanye,<br /><br />I think you misunderstood me. I am fine with companies laying off people during the economic ups and downs. I think that's what employees signed up for when they work for them. But what if the top management allow evasion of taxes by their clients, and doing money laundering and they got caught and fined heavily to the point that they have to reduce their cost by laying off people? That's the issue that I have with this.<br /><br />On your last paragraph, that's exactly how I felt. In the past, I would not hesitate to say that I'm not affected by ethics when investing. However, I'm not so sure these days. I want my money to support companies that makes the world better. Is that too idealistic these days? Am I getting 'softer'? I do not know, but these issues start to make me think a bit more before putting down my money, not just for investing but in everyday life.<br /><br />Basically, instead of just putting money that rewards us with the best returns, I want to see I can also put down money at where my ethics desires.la papillionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01372278083694506953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-29792253334822599622015-06-30T15:10:09.792+08:002015-06-30T15:10:09.792+08:00Hi LP,
I read your blog frequently but seldom com...Hi LP,<br /><br />I read your blog frequently but seldom comment. <br /><br />I don't think there is an ethical issue when companies lay off people to achieve a healthier financial situation. If they don't do it, the entire company may fail one day. <br /><br />I don't agree there is an ethical issue when the top managers get big bonuses or compensation upon resignation. That is usually in their employment contract. We lower rang employees don't get to enjoy this benefit, because we are not at their level and do not have their kind of responsibility as well. that's it. <br /><br />The "ethical" issue does affect my investment decision. For example I am against gambling. So I will not invest in Genting, for they are in this business. If I know that any company is involved in non-ethical business handling, e.g. corruption, I will not invest in that company as well. This is just my personal decision. Sanye ◎ 三页https://www.blogger.com/profile/10864265445567780610noreply@blogger.com