tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post4998144883634317848..comments2024-03-29T08:44:16.409+08:00Comments on BULLy the BEAR: How to beat OCBC 360's returnla papillionhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01372278083694506953noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-17137685225936246142016-01-26T17:40:11.313+08:002016-01-26T17:40:11.313+08:00Hi J.S,
I didn't mean no payout in 2017, I me...Hi J.S,<br /><br />I didn't mean no payout in 2017, I meant no payout of 4.5% in 2017 should they redeem by 2017 Jan. There will still be payouts at 3.8% coupon rate for 12-Jan, so you're right. I can't rmb the exact wording, so must read the prospectus for it.la papillionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01372278083694506953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-13047494486112686302016-01-26T15:33:25.832+08:002016-01-26T15:33:25.832+08:00Hi LP,
Is there an error in your calculation wher...Hi LP, <br />Is there an error in your calculation whereby you said in 2017, the payout is 0? I mean even if CMA redeems it on 12 Jan 2017, the arrear of 1.9% for the past 6mths still needs to be paid on 12 Jan 2017 right? Thanks, J.S.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-32544141674618700722015-04-01T17:07:52.860+08:002015-04-01T17:07:52.860+08:00Hi Ray,
You can go to sgx site, under fixed incom...Hi Ray,<br /><br />You can go to sgx site, under fixed income. I provide the link here:<br />http://www.sgx.com/wps/portal/sgxweb/home/marketinfo/fixed_income/bonds<br /><br />You can change the tab from retail bonds, to pref shares and SGS bonds.<br /><br />To see if they are callable or not, you have to read the prospectus. But you don't have to do the work, I've already done it here: http://bullythebear.blogspot.sg/2013/12/retail-bonds-listed-in-sgx.html#.VRu0vPmUfmc<br /><br />Do your own due diligence though, I might make a mistake when tabulating.la papillionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01372278083694506953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-2128967563687965282015-04-01T16:31:51.525+08:002015-04-01T16:31:51.525+08:00Hi LP,
Another question.
Where can I find out all...Hi LP,<br /><br />Another question.<br />Where can I find out all the bonds I can buy? <br />How do we tell if the bonds are callable or not?<br /><br />Thanks.Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16883833861386039879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-39133619818766650452015-04-01T14:00:00.037+08:002015-04-01T14:00:00.037+08:00no wonder.....
Thanks again for your tutoring :Pno wonder.....<br />Thanks again for your tutoring :PRayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16883833861386039879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-30015031874377178822015-04-01T13:59:02.766+08:002015-04-01T13:59:02.766+08:00Hi Ray,
Nah, not a teacher. A tutor ;)Hi Ray,<br /><br />Nah, not a teacher. A tutor ;)la papillionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01372278083694506953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-27020968017514026752015-04-01T13:57:27.973+08:002015-04-01T13:57:27.973+08:00WOW.
Thanks!
So detailed.
Are you a teacher? LOLWOW.<br />Thanks!<br />So detailed.<br />Are you a teacher? LOLRayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16883833861386039879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-91639210823233438572015-04-01T13:51:12.290+08:002015-04-01T13:51:12.290+08:00Hi Ray,
The price is $1.033, not $1.33.
Now is A...Hi Ray,<br /><br />The price is $1.033, not $1.33.<br /><br />Now is April, and the bond only pays out the dividend on Jan and July, so this year you would have missed the Jan issuance if you buy it right now. Since the coupon yield is 3.8%pa, this means that every half a year, they will issue 1.9%. The par value is $1.00, so the dividend received every half a year is $0.019. I don’t know when they will redeem it back, but the earliest they can redeem back is 12-Jan-2017. So let’s assume they do redeem it back on 12-jan-2017.<br /><br />In 2015, if you buy now, you’ll receive 1 coupon payment.<br /><br />In 2016, you’ll receive 2 coupon payments.<br /><br />In 2017, you’ll receive 0 payment<br /><br />So, in total, you’ll get 3 payment @ 1.9% each, so the total received is $0.057 (3*0.019). But if they redeem it, they will redeem it at par. Since you bought it at $1.033, you’ll lose $0.033 (1-0.033). <br /><br />Net returns = 0.057-0.033 = $0.024 <br /><br />From 1st April 2015 to 12-Jan-2017 is 652 days or 1.786 yrs<br /><br />So average net returns = 0.024/1.786 = 1.34% pa<br /><br />That represents the lowest returns you can get because if they choose to redeem it in 2018, they will first boost the payments to 4.5% pa, and you’ll get 2.48% pa.<br /><br />If in 2019, then will be 3.01% pa and so on and on.<br /><br />In short, you don’t lose money if you hold it till the bonds are returned. How much you get in return is a big question mark, but minimally you’ll get 1.34% excluding comms.<br />la papillionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01372278083694506953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-43092463051861688112015-04-01T13:31:00.765+08:002015-04-01T13:31:00.765+08:00Thanks for the detailed reply :)
I read and re-rea...Thanks for the detailed reply :)<br />I read and re-read your blog post.<br />There are risks that the bond could be called at par.<br />The current trading price of this bond is about $1.33<br />If we buy the bond at today at this price and it gets called back at par, do we still lose money? Sorry I want to calculate but don't know how. :(<br />Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16883833861386039879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-39243947284319363172015-04-01T13:25:55.860+08:002015-04-01T13:25:55.860+08:00Hi Ray,
There are two kinds of corporate bonds. F...Hi Ray,<br /><br />There are two kinds of corporate bonds. First is the institutional bonds but that is only for accredited investors. Each bond requires a min of 250k. You need to ask your RM in the bank or broker to help you on that if you're eligible.<br /><br />The second is retail bonds. These are actually institutional bonds with a smaller tranche for retail investors, and they are also traded over the counter like any stocks in sgx. You can buy them using your brokerage platform like stocks too and there's no min of 250k.<br /><br />As for govt bonds, you can open an acct with banks (just call them) and then bid for the bonds as and when they are available. It'll be on MAS website and also published on newspaper MONEY section some days before the auction starts. After some time, these bonds will also be traded on sgx also, but these are called the secondary market already, so you're not buying the bond at par value. Usually they will trade above the par value when you buy/sell in the secondary market.<br /><br />Hope it's clear?<br /><br />la papillionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01372278083694506953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-10356227722795001692015-04-01T12:28:08.923+08:002015-04-01T12:28:08.923+08:00Hi Bully The BEAR,
I'm new to your blog and t...Hi Bully The BEAR,<br /><br />I'm new to your blog and the bond market.<br />Any idea how to buy bonds (both corporate and govt) in SG?<br />Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16883833861386039879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-51375196315834698382015-01-20T16:39:35.326+08:002015-01-20T16:39:35.326+08:00Hi anonymous.
Care to put your nickname next tim...Hi anonymous. <br /><br />Care to put your nickname next time? Thanks! <br /><br />You can buy the bonds from brokers like poems, yup. Just look for the counter name. la papillionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01372278083694506953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-61377875356671887442015-01-20T15:38:54.538+08:002015-01-20T15:38:54.538+08:00Where can you buy the bonds? Is it through brokers...Where can you buy the bonds? Is it through brokers like POEMS?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-45337574380574549942015-01-14T10:33:41.443+08:002015-01-14T10:33:41.443+08:00Hi Derren,
That's not how you calculate the ...Hi Derren, <br /><br />That's not how you calculate the yield. If that's the case, then the 3.8% Capitalmall bond, if you buy it at 1.028,shouldnt the yield be 3.8/1.028 = 3.7% pa? You didn't take into acct the capital loss of redemption of bond at par value if you buy it above par. <br /><br />Capmall 3.08% pays every Aug and Feb. The maturity date is Feb 2014. If you buy it today, you get a total of 13 payments of 1.54% each (3.08/2). I included the payment on maturity date too, though I'm not sure if it's in. The capital loss from redemption from buying the bond above par value is 0.017.<br /><br />So, the net returns is 13 x 1.54/100 - 0.017 = 0.1832 over roughly 6.5 yrs. So the returns are 0.1832/1.017 divided by 6.5 = 2.77% pa. <br /><br />The only good thing for this is that there's no early redemption, so there's a lot more certainty. <br /><br />My take is to invest now and switch later to new bonds, if there are any. They've been talking for a long long time with no action. la papillionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01372278083694506953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-5051326507384618392015-01-14T10:23:07.773+08:002015-01-14T10:23:07.773+08:00Hi Derek,
I'll go check out the card.. Never...Hi Derek, <br /><br />I'll go check out the card.. Never heard before. Thanks for the intro! la papillionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01372278083694506953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-48868112498762715092015-01-14T09:25:15.878+08:002015-01-14T09:25:15.878+08:00Hi LP,
Alternatively, One can buy CapMallTrb3.08%2...Hi LP,<br />Alternatively, One can buy CapMallTrb3.08%210220 retail bond by CapitaMall Trust.<br />At selling price of 1.017, the yield would be 3.028%<br /><br />With SGX lowering the retail bond requirement, more company may want to tap into selling to retail investor, considering the interest rate going up soon.<br /><br />Perhaps can wait for new retail bond to be listed.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13074080482841393209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-55436251161759805302015-01-14T08:50:44.430+08:002015-01-14T08:50:44.430+08:00Hi LP,
Talking about cash back Credit Cards, I st...Hi LP,<br /><br />Talking about cash back Credit Cards, I started with Citibank Dividend card but the cash back % was low and you have to accumulate $50 first. Then I switch to Manhattan and like you said, their benefits have reduced over the years. The 'in' card now is OCBC 365 (not to be confused by OCBC 360). Maybe for everyday expenses use OCBC 360 and for very large purchases, the Manhattan.TheFinance.sghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11016651993435034511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-89837453529537215912015-01-14T01:48:56.554+08:002015-01-14T01:48:56.554+08:00Nice.... why capital mall? Hmmm lots of other good...Nice.... why capital mall? Hmmm lots of other good investments better than 360 too... hehe... <br />Juz a passerby... ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-18516039413174210482015-01-14T00:26:41.565+08:002015-01-14T00:26:41.565+08:00Hi anonymous,
See? Haha, I don't know which a...Hi anonymous,<br /><br />See? Haha, I don't know which anonymous I'm talking to...I'm anonymous. No, I'm anonymous. No, I'm anonymous!<br /><br />LOL!<br /><br />Most welcomed!la papillionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01372278083694506953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-68752432484556268472015-01-14T00:11:33.259+08:002015-01-14T00:11:33.259+08:00Hi LP,
Thanks for the reply and your patience. Wi...Hi LP,<br /><br />Thanks for the reply and your patience. Will leave my nickname next time!(:Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-53346045563218210302015-01-13T23:45:19.022+08:002015-01-13T23:45:19.022+08:00Hi anonymous,
Pls leave your nickname behind next...Hi anonymous,<br /><br />Pls leave your nickname behind next time?<br /><br />Have you bought a shares that pays dividend before? Twice per year one? This will do the same. They will deposit the payments 1.9% every half year, totalling 3.8% per year. All this is till 2017, but I spare you the details.<br /><br />They do, however, redeem back at $1, no matter what price you bought. Since the price now is at $1.028, you will lose $0.028 when they redeem back the shares. You have to take that into account when you buy bonds that are trading above par value (in this case of $1).<br /><br />I'm quite sure you can find it from SCB platform since it's traded over the counter.la papillionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01372278083694506953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-18476274875726486372015-01-13T23:42:33.198+08:002015-01-13T23:42:33.198+08:00Hi Derek,
Oh...I see. Indeed suckier than before....Hi Derek,<br /><br />Oh...I see. Indeed suckier than before. Talking about scb, I used to like their Manhanttan card...but now, quite useful. Used to be so good, but their benefits reduced a lot over the years.<br /><br />Now, it's back to my trusty old posb everyday card lolla papillionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01372278083694506953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-75898322892646625882015-01-13T23:41:32.014+08:002015-01-13T23:41:32.014+08:00Hi anonymous,
Do leave your nickname next time? :...Hi anonymous,<br /><br />Do leave your nickname next time? :)<br /><br />If you've no idea when you want to liquidate the money, and capital protection is so important, this is probably a wrong instrument. That I will agree. <br /><br />Did you manage to get the 3.05%?la papillionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01372278083694506953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-55291528025554349172015-01-13T23:09:52.607+08:002015-01-13T23:09:52.607+08:00Hi,
Sorry for my ignorance. How does capitalmalls...Hi,<br /><br />Sorry for my ignorance. How does capitalmalls pay you te returns yearly and when they redeem it? Do I buy it the way I buy shares on SCB trading?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37872616.post-82202261958421802562015-01-13T23:05:06.833+08:002015-01-13T23:05:06.833+08:00LP,
1.3% is promotional rate and I think on incre...LP,<br /><br />1.3% is promotional rate and I think on incremental balance. The offer then was a fix 1.88% on any balance. Derekhttp://thefinance.sgnoreply@blogger.com